Behind the Scenes: Fostering Professional Well-being at OhioHealth
February 20, 2024 | Episode 10
Producer’s Note: The following is an AI-generated transcript of The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth Podcast
SPEAKERS: Laurie Hommema, MD, Marcus Thorpe, Missy Gleason
Marcus Thorpe 00:14
When you see your doctor, usually you're not feeling well. But have you ever wondered how your doctors doing? Welcome to the wellness conversation and OhioHealth Podcast? I'm Marcus Thorpe.
Missy Gleason 00:23
And I'm Missy Gleason. Today we have a very special episode that takes us behind the scenes of health care, shining a light on those who tirelessly care for us.
Marcus Thorpe 00:31
We're focusing on an often overlooked yet crucial aspect of health care clinician well being. And we're joined by a remarkable physician from OhioHealth, who's at the forefront of this vital work. Dr. Laurie Hommema, Senior Medical Director of well being as our guest today, Dr. Hommema, it's good to see you. Thanks for joining us.
Dr. Hommema 00:48
Yeah, I'm really glad to be here.
Missy Gleason 00:49
So let's get started and learn more about the people who take care of our community. Dr. Hommema, can you share a little bit about your journey to becoming a physician and how it's led you to well being?
Dr. Hommema 00:59
Yeah, absolutely. You know, looking back over my career, all the steps make sense. But this was never really where I thought I would end up. I realized when you're in medical school, you get to try out lots of different specialties, to decide where you'd like to do your residency, what type of physician you'd like to become. And what I found is the specialties that made me the most happy I would say are the most fulfilled, were those where I could have the biggest impact on a family and a community, and not just fix one thing, but think kind of globally about how someone's doing. So that really led me to Family Medicine, which I've been practicing now for 16 years, which is hard to believe. And within that time, I became a program director, a faculty member and trained other physicians as well. And what I saw is the harm that we were really doing to our own, the the stress and strain of health care, the rigors of training, kind of the old ways of doing things and really, you know, seeing physicians and nurses, other members of the healthcare team, struggling with mental health with maybe eating disorders, substance use disorders, and they just, they weren't getting the help that they needed. And it didn't make sense to me, because we're in healthcare. So it really led me to start thinking about the why the root cause? How are we not taking care of ourselves? And why are we putting ourselves through really untenable situations to work in? And how could we do this differently. So throughout my career, either as faculty or as a program director, really kind of changing the system, and seeing how we could do this a little bit differently, changing the culture, and we really started to see some great success. So which kind of led to this work coming to the whole entire health system, but really working in a state level now to really think about how we change the way we take care of our own.
Marcus Thorpe 02:52
And I know we're gonna get into it throughout this entire podcast, but you've also had a chance to be front and center and working with residents. So being able to get to these folks at the early stages of their professional careers now is going to be so critically important, I think, to their overall well being not that not that we're not still worried about those who have been in this business for a long time. So we'll talk about that in our chat here today. What are some of those challenges for health care providers that they're facing when it comes to balancing professional and maybe their personal well being too?
Dr. Hommema 03:25
Yeah absolutely. And I think there's a lot of different ways to think about clinician wellbeing and just the well being of our healthcare teams, but we really look at it using the Stanford model of professional well being. And it kind of puts things in three buckets. So I'll kind of talk about those buckets and, and the challenges that come within them. Right. There's the one that we all talk about in this podcast is about it's just kind of personal wellness, right, and your physical, mental, emotional health. And a lot of those barriers are access to time, if I mean, really, time is a huge is a huge barrier. Because when you think someone works a 12 hour shift, like many of our healthcare team does on a regular basis, when can they see their doctor? When can they go to the dentist, our residents and our physicians, many work 24 hour or 30 hour shifts, they're on call. They work the next day. And they can't even get to their own providers that they need. I was amazed in training, how many of our residents or some of our nurses hadn't been to the dentist in three years, and so or longer. And so it's just the structure in which we work really doesn't allow us to take care of ourselves. When we think about the culture, that's kind of that second bucket, the culture of well being there's a deep stigma around help seeking within health care. A lot of that is because we think we know what we should do. We think we know the treatment. We know the cure, we can diagnose ourselves, but a lot of it has to do with kind of public opinion, as well as the way we license our health care teams. And so most licensing bodies, until just recently had very invasive questions about previous health conditions, whether it's mental health, substance use disorders, and knew that they were reportable to their licensing boards. And so we have 16 licensing boards in the state of Ohio. And they all until recently had some sort of invasive questions, the State Medical Board, just change those questions in October. So it's not been very long that we've been thinking about how we support our own and getting help, and not making it something that could affect their career long term, if they did get help. So that's been a very large barrier to individuals getting help over the years. And then the last is, when we think about well being, it's really around our efficiency of practice. And for anyone who's gotten gotten health care in the last few years, we know how complex it is. And so when you imagine working within that complex system, the electronic health record, the pre authorizations, all of the hoops you have to move individuals through, it gets very stressful, and it just seems the administrative burden is stacking up on our health care teams. So that structural component is really the number one driver of burnout in distress when you look at the literature, and is a huge component of the well being of our healthcare teams.
Missy Gleason 06:34
This is so eye opening and something I've never even considered as somebody who just goes to the doctor, right. But it's really interesting. How does OhioHealth's wellbeing program address these types of challenges?
Dr. Hommema 06:47
Yeah, absolutely. And so we have workstreams, or efforts and all of those in all of those three components, we've done a lot of work to increase access to resources that are confidential, that are private that our healthcare teams can access, if they are struggling with anxiety, or depression, or a substance use disorder, that keeps them out of that concern for licensing or confidentiality. We all want to receive health care from teams that we know and trust. But we're also worried when we go to the ER, maybe we've been in a car accident, do we want that entire healthcare team to see that their colleagues struggling with substance use disorder, that's something a lot of people don't want in the electronic medical record. So we've actually created a whole separate well being center on a separate electronic health record, so that our clinicians can feel safe and confident that they can get the help they need. And the rest of the team doesn't know about it.
Marcus Thorpe 07:44
I want to talk a little bit more about the OhioHealth approach to wellbeing, still relatively new in your position, and in this space. Can you talk about what the inspiration was for the creation of the work that you're leading at OhioHealth and wellbeing?
Dr. Hommema 07:44
Yeah I mean, it was really it was it was very democratic, I would say in that it was asked for, we had lots of pockets around the organization, doing this work, thinking about it, talking about it, looking at burnout, looking at the drivers of distress and trying to make incremental change, kind of at a local level. There were some accreditation requirements in graduate medical education, that made all of our residencies change the way they were doing things. And the success that was seen at the graduate medical education level really led to other large teams nursing. IT, other groups saying, hey, we should do this too, for our folks. So it was kind of a grassroots efforts of lots of little committees around the system that all formed a big committee in 2018. And decided we need to put some resources behind this create a team that this is their sole focus. Fast forward a pandemic that accelerated the work quite a bit with the increased stress that we saw in our teams. And here we are now with an entire well being center dedicated to treating your own clinicians and a team that this is all they think about every day.
Marcus Thorpe 09:10
Wow, awesome.
Missy Gleason 09:12
So how do you feel this program that we have how does that impact patient care now?
Dr. Hommema 09:17
Yeah, well, I think we know looking backwards in the literature, that when teams are stressed when they're burnout, when they're suffering from an untreated mental health diagnosis, that patient care suffers, that we see an increased risk of surgical bad surgical outcomes if your surgeon has a low quality of life score. So we know that there's a very, very distinct tie to how well your clinician is doing and the care that you receive. I think intrinsically we all know that and it makes sense. If you're coming to work and you're tired and you haven't eaten and you haven't slept in. You're very anxious that day, you're probably not going to perform at the top of your license. The way that you want to, but we have the literature to prove it. And so we know as we continue to improve those markers will only improve patient care.
Marcus Thorpe 10:10
I know when it comes to privacy, we can't share specific examples of success stories. But is there an overarching thing that you've seen a lot of success from when this program was built in 2018, to where we are now, where, you know, it's made a critical difference in the lives of some of our providers?
Dr. Hommema 10:28
Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to talk a little bit about our we care program. And it's different from the OhioHealth wellbeing center, and that that's where our clinicians go for that individual care, maybe they need counseling, maybe they mindfulness, maybe they're seeking treatment for substance use disorder, that all happens at the wellbeing center. But then we have programs that happen within the walls of our hospitals and our ambulatory care sites, and one of them is the larger we care program, which includes a critical incident response. And when we think about it, there's really many horrible things that happen every day in healthcare. We see people on the worst day of their lives every single day, sometimes on the best day of their life as well. But many times on the worst day of their life. And oftentimes, as health care providers, we tend to think that that's part of our job, and we just need to move on. But that's a really dangerous place to be, because that's denying your own humanity. And what we see is when we deny that reality, and we don't process, the tragedy, that we sometimes are part of over time, that can lead to long term distress, PTSD, anxiety, depression. So it's really important when these events happen, that we have access to resources in the moment, within the first 24 hours within the first 72 hours. So we've created a critical incident response program that really, again took off in 2021, through the stress of the pandemic, that any person in the organization can call one number and report that their team has experienced something traumatic. And we have responders who have been trained in critical incident stress management that can come and provide a few things and debriefings, and kind of short circuit, that acute trauma response. And what we hope is that over time, if we continue to short circuit that response, and people can process and decompress, then it won't build up. And it won't lead to those long term issues that we've seen for years. In our health care teams, the increased risk of depression, substance use suicide, from the general population that all of our healthcare teams are at risk, we hope to bend that curve with these types of programs.
Marcus Thorpe 12:47
Yeah, changing the mindset that this is expected this is what comes with the job, I just need to shove it down and move on.
Dr. Hommema 12:53
Absolutely. And you know, when we started that program, it was really, I remember, there was a really significant trauma that came into one of our ER's that the entire community knew about it made the news. Our team hadn't heard about it. The team a few days later reached out to the CEO, and said, why hasn't OhioHealth done anything. We were part of this, we lived it, we took care of these patients. And that was really the impetus to accelerate this work. And what I can say is that over the holidays, there was another similar event. And we had responders there within two hours to help those teams to debrief. So the change in culture is incredible. That event was reported by no less than five people. That said my team needs needs help now. And we were able to provide that.
Missy Gleason 13:44
Wow, that's amazing. What are some of the strategies that you would recommend to clinicians for maintaining physical and mental health?
Dr. Hommema 13:54
Yeah, I think everyone does need a personal strategy, they really need to understand individually what they need. I mean, any healthcare team, you can talk about sleep all day long. Just when you think about healthcare doesn't stop, it's 24 hours a day. And maybe you work in an ambulatory practice where their hours are eight to five, but that doesn't mean they're not on call. You're not thinking about your patients the next day, and we know all of our hospitals operate 24/7. So sleep is the first thing I always talk about with any of our healthcare teams, and then really thinking about what are those stresses, the strains, the patients that I'm bringing home with me, and how can I process through that? Do I have access to resources? Do I have someone I can talk to regularly? What are those boundaries I can set with myself, my patients, my family, I think we carry a lot with us home. So being able to create some space before you kind of re enter normal life is also really important, so that you can be fully present with your family, with your friends with the people who bring you joy everyday.
Marcus Thorpe 15:00
I think one of the beauties of this podcast is that we know there's a lot of OhioHealth folks that are listening to our podcast. But there's a lot of people outside the walls of OhioHealth that also tune in and listen and want to pull something out for themselves. And I think with this particular topic, this is something that isn't just an OhioHealth situation, this is across the board, from a professional point of view, how can some of these techniques and things that we've worked to develop over the last several years, translate beyond our walls to maybe some other professional environments that are looking for ways to really connect with their people and take care of their people?
Dr. Hommema 15:35
Yeah, absolutely. I think one of the things that's most important is, is is a reckoning I think we're going to have to come to grips with as a society is that we cannot multitask. As human beings, we think we can and we try to, but the number of distractions, the short attention span, the emails, the texts, the teams meetings, the whatever it is, that's coming at you, at 100 miles an hour. In the clinical setting, it's the call light, it's the secure page, it's the patient just yelling, it's, you know, whatever it is, that it's just not a long term, way to work. And although information is more accessible, than it's ever been, like, our brains just weren't meant to work in this way. So however, anyone can compartmentalize their day, and reduce distractions, have set times where they're working on a specific project and feeling like they can accomplish something is always really important. I think the more we can reduce waste in any system. So you're not handling the same things two or three times. You feel like the system you're working in, is efficient and not broken. I think those are really important for any workplace well being. And then I think, you know, the work that we do, particularly with critical incident work and processing, you think about all of our first responders, our teachers, our social workers out in the community, they are seeing the same things that our teams are and need access to those resources as well.
Missy Gleason 17:06
Speaking about the bigger community, let's talk about the ripple effect of this work. How does supporting the well being of healthcare professionals ultimately, ripple out into the community?
Dr. Hommema 17:18
Yeah, I think I think in a couple of ways, and one, you know, talking about the first responders and the other teams that have those daily human interactions, if you will, I think about our teachers, what they you know, they're they're working with our kids every day, but they're also part of the kids lives, they know what's happening. They take that home with them, right. So thinking of different ways that we can provide that emotional support, the mental health support for our our community is really important. I also think that healthcare always, or historically, folks have looked to health care for best practices, right? We look to doctors for advice, we look for our clinical teams. If we see, you know, I think back to when I started medical school, and I'm not that old, the chart racks outside of the hallways had ashtrays. Right? And so could you imagine now if a doctor walked in smoking to your room, so. So similarly, we tend to look to those health care professionals for those healthy habits, those health promoting behaviors. So if we can start to model truly what it looks like to take care of our mental health and our well being, I think that will our patients will see that, and our community members will see that as well. And things can only kind of spread through the community.
Missy Gleason 18:38
I think you're right about it starting here. And even in our community, and in our society. Now talking about mental health is not as stigmatized anymore, like, like you're saying at the beginning of the podcast, yes, there still is a stigma around asking for help. And they're still this feeling of like, I must be strong. But I think those walls are starting to break down. And this is proof of that.
Dr. Hommema 18:56
Absolutely, and even normalizing some of the questions that we ask at a patient visit. So now I'm a family physician, so I'm going to put on my preventative health care hat, but we screen everyone at least once a year for depression. And when that becomes just part of what we do every year, it again it takes away that fear around it that ability to speak up to be heard. It used to be kind of the doorknob complaint, when you would talk about someone's blood pressure and their you know, their heart disease and maybe they have a sore knee and then as you're walking out, it's also I'm not sleeping well. I feel like my moods really low where now we can start with that. And we know that if we treat mental health. chronic health care conditions also improve because people are in a better better state to take care of their chronic health care conditions. So we can start there we can improve the health of the whole community.
Marcus Thorpe 19:55
You're listening to The Wellness Conversation, an OhioHealth podcast I'm Marcus Thorpe along with my co host Missy Gleason. And, and we are talking about a really important topic today it is clinician wellbeing. And we are joined by Dr. Laurie Hommema, who's the Senior Medical Director of well being I talked at the beginning of this podcast about medical residents, we are a very big teaching space at OhioHealth. We have residents at all of our hospitals, and they're, they're working hard, they're starting their careers, or they're restarting a career. Can you talk about what's being done, kind of on the front end of that, and making sure that we make early connections with these doctors and teams, as they start to enter our system and really look at their budding career long term with us?
Dr. Hommema 20:37
Yeah, absolutely. I think what I love about graduate medical education is because when we get new residents every year, and new residents graduate, and go on to private practice, we have the perfect kind of learning lab to test out new things and a yearly basis and see what's working, what's not, you know, what's not working. And then we also kind of send out individuals who have been trained in a specific way, and are looking for that in their private practice. So it really helps change the culture of health care if we do things really well, and graduate medical education. And so a lot of very positive things have started in medical education, like the the entire quality movement, really had that Springboard with training residents in quality improvement, and patient safety. And so I think we'll see this similar thing with well being. And so it was, I believe, in 2017, that there were accreditation requirements built in to the ACGME, which is the accrediting body that trains all residents on specific aspects of well being. And so they required all graduate medical education programs, to have screening tools for residents so they could check, am I in my burnout? Do I have depression? Am I not sleeping? Well, they could do some self screening, they needed to have access to those resources, we've changed the number of hours residents can work over the years, it's still surprising that our residents can work 24 hour shifts. But it's better than 36. I'll say that I don't know if it's all it's optimized yet. But it's better than 36 hours in a row. Really looking at career development, communication skills, all those things that really make you successful, I think we've developed really a best practice at OhioHealth. Within our wellbeing center, we have a small team that's dedicated to just caring for our physicians, residents and advanced practice providers. And one of our health and wellness coaches, Heidi O'Neill created a program about five years ago called for your success. And she meets with every single new resident, Advanced Practice provider and physician who starts at OhioHealth. And just gets to know them. She wants to understand their needs. If they have any needs coming in. If they need a physician, if they need a dentist, what's their home life looking like? Do they have kids? Do they have a family that's maybe not where they're training, what are those areas of stress that could really impact them through their training. And then she keeps in touch with them. And it's been incredible to see the response from this population. Within the first couple years of her piloting this program, over 40% came back for something. So they came to the wellbeing center, maybe for counseling, maybe their spouse needed something, they engaged in our mindfulness program, maybe they met with our psychiatrist to talk about treatment for a disorder that they were suffering from. So it was just a really great way to reduce that stigma of getting help. And creating a really positive environment. I mean, like what a great way to start a new job to have that type of meeting. Showing them the doors open from the start, you can always come through it. That's really neat.
Missy Gleason 23:58
And looking like just this whole conversation has been eye opening for me just to hear the success and and there's still work to be done. But it's looking back and realizing how far we've come. Can you give us any, I guess, like a peek into the future of the future development?
Dr. Hommema 24:15
Absolutely. I think it's it, there's kind of two things left for us to tackle I feel in a very meaningful way. And one we've been building slowly to and that's really around suicide prevention. I alluded to it earlier, but it's it's a well known and unfortunate fact that our physicians, our nurses, and many members of our healthcare teams have a higher rate of suicide than the general population for many of the reasons that we've already discussed. But we also know there's inner ventures that work and a lot of them are peer based. So most healthcare workers will go to their peer when they're struggling before they go to anyone else. Just again, because of that safety concern that many folks have. And so what we're creating, and we've piloted it over the last couple of months and have had some great success is really looking at what does a gatekeeper suicide prevention program look like? So we have partnered with Dr. Darcy Grinnell, who's a researcher, a counselor and in just an amazing inner individual around suicide prevention from The Ohio State University. And so she's created one of the largest suicide prevention programs in the country, at the university, and has used it for students and faculty. So we've brought her over, and we've created a version for OhioHealth, and are planning over the next three years to train. Our dream is to train the entire organization, in suicide prevention techniques for your peers, we've already had over 400 people sign up for the training. And we've had about 200 folks completed and we've had, just in the last couple of weeks, we've heard from three individuals who have already used the training, and have been able to connect someone who they work with or live with, to resources. So I feel that it's a very, we can prevent suicide. I think it's that's really the next step for our organization.
Marcus Thorpe 26:14
What a ride for you to where you are now again, it was it's interesting to hear you talk at the front end, you never thought you'd be in this space. Right? And now that you are you probably can't imagine not being in this space, because you know, you're doing.
Dr. Hommema 26:25
Yep, I totally agree. And it's for me, it's my next kind of career move has always about Ben, where can I make the biggest impact for patient care. And right now, I know that every time we help just one of our individuals who work at OhioHealth, we're touching a measurable lives in the community. So for me, it's always been about the patients at the end of the day, as much as it is about my peers.
Marcus Thorpe 26:51
Yeah, it's great work. We do want to conclude as we do all the time, on our podcast here, a little bit more fun learning about you personally, and maybe dive into some of the fun stuff in your life, too. You're ready to do it?
Dr. Hommema 27:04
Sure.
Marcus Thorpe 27:05
All right. Let's see.
Missy Gleason 27:06
So what is your go to activity for relaxation after a long work day?
Dr. Hommema 27:11
Oh, that's a great question. A couple of things come to mind after a long work day. For for the holidays, this year, my kids actually got me a sweatshirt that has a little bear on it. And it says it's past my bedtime. And that's entirely accurate. Like I loved to go to bed. So sometimes I just go to bed. Eight to nine hours a night is glorious. Not always attainable. But I think that sweatshirt says a lot. But really, we love to be outside. A long walk or bike ride always solves a lot of problems. For me, I would say I'm also very intentional about when I when I drive home, when I shut the computer at home, I always try to create 5 to 10 minutes of space. Mindfulness is a great thing to do in that moment before I kind of enter back home as mom, because when they overlap, it doesn't always go well. My kids don't like me being their doctor, but when I'm carrying everything I hear all day with them, I know I'm not connecting with them. I know they they can tell I'm somewhere else. So that's really important for me, too, is making sure I have those 5 to 10 minutes. And oftentimes that's all it takes for me to be able to kind of process what I heard that day, what I dealt with and then kind of reenter my home.
Marcus Thorpe 28:32
I think doctor or not, that's a great idea for all of us. I think I should do that too. Just give myself 10 minutes to change hats.
Dr. Hommema 28:39
Yeah, sometimes I just sit in my car in my garage. It's the best time. I think a lot of people do but it just like sit there and the seat heaters on it's good.
Missy Gleason 28:47
Yep.
Marcus Thorpe 28:47
How about a book that significantly influenced you? Maybe professionally or personally? Are you a reader? Do you love to read?
Dr. Hommema 28:52
Oh I do. Yeah, absolutely, I would say professionally, anyone in healthcare. There's two books, and one is In Shock. And the other one is When Breath Becomes Air. And they're both written by members of the healthcare team who are experiencing a significant health care struggle. And in in the last one, the book is not finished. I'll just say that. You don't get to read a complete the complete story. But I think it just really centers the patient experience in a way that's very tangible, and really changed the way I know as a program director, I taught my residents to communicate the way that I think about my patients, when they're struggling and they were just really impactful books.
Missy Gleason 29:41
Can you share maybe a fun or surprising fact about yourself that your patients might not know or listeners?
Dr. Hommema 29:47
I'll say I had a double life at one point, but no. So before I was, before I went to medical school, I was actually a microbiologist, and I worked at Battelle and this was right after 911. So I have a background in bio defense. So I'm always looking around the room for different threats. And it's just kind of something I've never been able to fully, fully shake off. But it was a really interesting time of my life. But unfortunately, I can't talk about it.
Marcus Thorpe 30:18
I've never felt safer.
Dr. Hommema 30:19
That's right.
Marcus Thorpe 30:20
Safest podcast.
Dr. Hommema 30:21
I already did the threat Assessment.
Marcus Thorpe 30:24
And then finally, because this has really been a focus podcast on health care professionals, let's talk about maybe advice for aspiring healthcare professionals. What piece of advice would you give to those maybe looking to enter the healthcare field?
Dr. Hommema 30:37
Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. And you know, I talk, I talk about this a lot with medical students that rotate through my practice, but I think it's applicable to anyone thinking about health care, it's very easy. When you have like a course, you have a great teacher in a course or you have a great mentor you're working with, or perhaps you're on a rotation in the hospital, doing a clinical rotation and your team is really good to think that's what you want to do. And oftentimes, it's the team, the person that made the experience great, and maybe not the specialty area, or that particular rotation, or career or shadowing experience. And so really sitting down and thinking about, what does this career specialty really mean to me, and asking your family, how you were on those different clinical experiences, the different classes you take, because oftentimes, your family and friends have more insight into how you were responding how you were coming home, I know, an example that I always give is, I thought for sure, I wanted to be a neonatologist. Not just because I love babies, but the physiology, the anatomy, everything about it was so fascinating to me. And when I told my my husband that he couldn't believe it, he's like, You were miserable. You cried every night. Because I got so attached to those babies. And he's like, I don't really want to live with you. This is what life's gonna look like. And, and so I really had to reflect on that. He's like, I thought for sure you were gonna say family medicine. And, then I really sat down and thought about Yeah, I had a great team. And it was a fascinating subject. But personally, it would have never been fulfilling. And it would have been really hard for me to separate from those families, if I had done that. And so it was it was really insightful. And I learned very quickly, your family can tell when you're really happy. That's awesome, that's really well thought out. Well, Dr. Laurie Hommema, we both know you professionally and in our lives that we've done at OhioHealth. And so we were so happy when you said yes to being on our podcast. And we knew it was going to be a great episode. And it really has been a pleasure to have you with us today. Yeah, well, thank you so much.
Marcus Thorpe 32:55
We appreciate your insights, and of course the incredible work that you do for our system.
Missy Gleason 33:00
And to our listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in. Remember health and wellness starts with a conversation and we're glad you joined ours today. Stay well and see you in the next episode of the wellness conversation and OhioHealth podcast.
Marcus Thorpe 33:13
And of course we invite you to follow us on all major social channels staying up to date on new episodes, other health and wellness topics. And if you're looking for more information on OhioHealth services and locations, be sure to visit ohiohealth.com
Missy Gleason 33:25
Thanks for joining us and be sure to subscribe as we continue our exploration of important health and wellness topics with OhioHealth experts